Misotheism or Hatred of God

Hi everyone.
Today I was feeling very frustrated and sad and some moments got really unbearable. In these moments some thoughts often emerge and add to this sense of melancholy, you can’t help but ask yourself these questions: Why should we suffer? Why is there so much amount of unnecessary sufferings that happen every goddamn day? You should only whatch the news or look around you to ask yourself these questions.

One thing that pisses me off even more is when I hear people talking about God and how you should thank God every day and this kind of stuff. Let me be honest with you, There is no reason to believe that this terrible world is created by a benevolent and loving God, if there was such a God he/she/it would never ever create this terrible and awful world, to me this idea is just inconcievable.
like many others, I was brought up a god worshiper, I was afraid of going to hell after my death! But as I grew up I finally realized that I was fooled and immediately abandoned this nonsense.

The so called problem of evil basically says that sufferings and evils, including rapes, wars, diseases and injustices we observe every single day, are logically irreconcilable with the exsistence of a perfectly good God. So the conclusion is that this world is just what it is, we have evolved in this way and God is only a fancy created by ancient humans who didn’t know any better.

Having said all this, let’s say just for the sake of the argument that there may be some god or gods, but as mentioned above, this God cannot be perfectly good. So either the creator of the universe is an indifferent and cold and callous entity, or it is indeed an evil God or the Satan himself!

Okay, I don’t want to defend this concept, because like I said there is no evidence of any God whatsoever. However, I think that the belief in an evil or careless God is more consistent and coherent compared to the belief in an all loving deity.

This idea of a bad and unjust creator is not new at all, here are for example some similar viewpoints concerning the attributes of a supposed God preached by some ancient thinkers:

Gnosticism:
In early Christianity, when it was just an infant, there was a group of Christians who had a dualistic view about the world, meaning that they believed there are in fact two opposing deities, one an evil God called Demiurge who has created this material world which is full of darkness and imperfection, and a benevolent one who rules over the spiritual world and has actually sent Jesus Christ to fight evil. Acoording to Gnostics, we should deny this material world created by the evil God by abstaining from reproduction, because bringing a child to the realm of darkness will imprison and contaminate their souls. They were true Antinatalist, one could claim!

As you can see, this worldview is so different from orthodox monotheistic Christianity, so unfortunately, Gnostics were later considered heretics and eventually went extinct. But this is apparently the fate of all great philosophies, in this foul hellish earth, stupid beliefs are destined to be popular and widespread, not coherent and tenable ones.

Bertrand Russell, the 20th century British philosopher, in his famous essay Why I’m not a Christian has a very interesting opinion about the long forgotten Gnostics that I’d like to share with you:

Marcion:
This early Christian had also a similar view and advocated
non-procreation in order to oppose the malevolent creator of this world whom he considered to be the Old Testament God of Jews who is indeed portrayed as jealous and malicious.

Manichaeism:
The persian prophet مانی also preached a dualistic worldview, he gathered the wisdom of Buddhism, Gnosticism and other available philospohies of his time together, but sadly his interesting doctrines are long forgotten. I hope we as persians would appreciate this philosophy more.

So, as I showed, Misotheism or Hatred of God goes back to ancient times, I don’t hold their view, yet still I highly admire their ingenuity and wisdom and I definitely prefer their beliefs to Abrahamic religions. They were wise enough to see the unjustifiable misery and suffering in life and could not accept that it is created by a perfectly good God, no, the true God (if it exsists) could not have any role in creating this godforsaken world, it is totally impossible!

Whoever or whatever has created this universe I despise him, I hate him and would never worship him, I also have no respect for people believing in this God and admiring him, the creator of this material world is surely a despicable being who has made and allowed all these innumerable and unnecessary sufferings for all poor sentient beings.

I would like to leave you guys with a beautiful poem by خیام that is relevat to this topic and sums it up very well:

گر بر فلکم دست بدی چون یزدان

برداشتمی من این فلک را ز میان

از نو فلکی دگر چنان ساختمی

کازاده بکام دل رسیدی آسان.

Ah, Love! could you and I with Him conspire
To grasp this sorry Scheme of Things entire
Would not we shatter it to bits–and then
Re-mould it nearer to the Heart’s Desire

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Well, let me say that I don’t agree with you, but I highly respect your questioning character. My English is not as good as yours, but I think I can understand at least some parts of your complicated mind (except for one thing, which is actually being feeling or Thinking, other aspects of your personality are completely familiar to me), so let me congratulate you for having this dynamic mind.

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Thank you. I appreciate it. :pray: :rose:

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Hi!

To be honest, I never get why people are so intent on finding answers to things which’ve plagued humanity for years, while knowing there would be no concrete answer. I always thought knowing the outline of how a human being should live in interaction with others, is enough to go through life. Be kind, don’t lie, don’t judge, don’t inflict pain upon others…the fundamentals. I’m not gonna say that I’ve never had such thoughts, because I’ve had, but after some time I just got tired, tired of not coming to a concrete conclusion, tired of not finding answers.

I think humanity inflicts pain upon itself, we’re the ones who make life so miserable and hard for eachother, we’re the ones not following the rules. And even if God is a big fat lie, it’s a good one. Because it gives us hope, and we need hope to keep going. I know you’re thinking: ‘what good is hope if at the end it’s a willful delusion?’ well, I think that’s the definition of hope, it is a willful delusion.

I value truth, but I also know that you can’t live life only according to facts, sometimes you just need to believe there’s a light in the dark somewhere, waiting, before you actually see it.

I’m a hopeful idealist and a dreamer, so you’re welcome to call what I just said sentimental hogwash, but I just wanted to share my opinion on the matter.

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Hi.
Thank you for sharing your opinion. I appreciate it. I really do.

I agree with most of what you said, but it’s not about finding answers of life per se, if you want to know my true opinion on a lot of philosophical questions, I would say that I’m a skeptic and agnostic. Despite all that, I enjoy exploring ideas which have been thought out by great thinkers in the past. You have no idea how enjoyable intellectual pleasure is. And a lot of them are so wise and if not literally, they’re allegorically true.
I believe that not reading and exploring philosophies and ideas is the main cause of our desperate situation.

Very nice and beautiful thoughts. If only all humans would think like you, but sadly history is full of evils that proves humanity a total failure.

I dont’t quite agree with that. God is a myth created by past people who were ignorant, so they came up with the idea of God to solve their ignorance. I don’t blame them. But I can’t understand why it should be the case with us.
God is not a good idea at all. History shows that ruthless rulers used God to repress others and create suffering on earth. Look at crusades, look at our own theocratic government that kills people under the name of God. Look at medieval period when they tortured and burned people alive. God is a disgusting concept. We would be better off without this God.

But in general you are right, we pathetic and poor humans need these delusions in order to continue this life.

When Gnostics said that we should reach out to the Good God of spiritual world, they were basically idealist too.

Thank you again. I wish you best. :rose: :pray:

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I agree, I find exploring different ideas interesting and even beneficial. But I like to think of them just as ideas, and not lessons of truth. I think them being as human as we are, they can’t be right about everything or at least they can’t be right entirely.

True, I see what you say. It’s not black and white, as they say.

Thank YOU, I find reading your essays really enjoyable. They contradict how I think, but we all need a little bit of contradiction to grow, someone to challenge how we think. :rose:

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A few years ago -against my will!- I started reading the book Towhid -written by Morteza Motahari- and this was the beginning of my acquaintance with this author. Today I again felt the need to have a general review of my thoughts. This is why I referred to the same book again. In the first few pages, he explains two issues; First of all this point that the definition of this question must be done correctly (like any other philosophical question)

به عالم مثل افلاطون اشاره میکنه و اینکه "بحث در این نیست که غیر از این سایه‌ها که ما می‌بینیم، یک سایه‌ی دیگر وجود دارد یا وجود ندارد، بلکه بحث در این است که آیا این سایه‌ها استقلال دارند یا سایه هستند.
The previous explanations helpe to understand this issue. That this issue can be compared with the proof of the existence of time.
"اگر کسی بخواهد زمان را همان‌طور که مثلا یک ستاره‌شناس دنبال این است که یک ستاره را در کنار ستاره‌های دیگر در عالم پیدا کند[…] او اگر نابغه‌ترین افراد بشر هم باشد، میلیون‌ها سال هم دنبال زمان بگردد نمی‌تواند زمان را پیدا کند. "
بعدتر توضیح میده که زمان رو باید در خود اشیاء جستجو کرد، به عنوان یک امتداد و بعد دیگه

The second point is that the existence of God is provable. Just as we do not feel time, but science has proven it.

بماند که خیلی مسائل از جمله مسئله‌ی علیت رو بشر بدون اینکه حسش کرده باشه، درکش میکنه.

Now that I have said this, I will also say the third assumption. It is that God should not be sought(?) in time and space. He points to a debate between Einstein and Maeterlinck in which Einstein believed that space was finite, but Maeterlinck said that it was not. But he explains that this issue has nothing to do with the issue of Towhid and comparing them is foolish.

این‌ها رو نگفتم که چیزی رو به کرسی بنشونم؛ ابدا! اتفاقا خودم مدام به همه‌ی داده‌های ذهنیم و نظام باورام شک می‌کنم و مرتبا مورد بازنگری قرارشون می‌دم (به حد افراطی؛ طوری که واقعا زندگی تو این وضعیت زجرآور میشه برام!!)

I just wanted to say that this topic made me think again. And I was trying to share a part of what I read today.

سه‌مقدمه‌ی اساسی پیش از بررسی مسئله‌ی توحید

I am thinking about this issue deeply again and I hope this time I will be closer to the truth.
P.S: so so sorry for my awful English​:joy::pray:

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That’s so true:)

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I think I’m just after a peaceful existence (if such a thing is even achievable), where I wittle down things to simple facts or principles. I just think it takes too much energy to be trapped in your head, mulling over ideas time and time again.

Thank you for sharing parts of your thoughts on the matter with us, even though I didn’t get half of it. It seemed a bit… unclear. I’m not very good with philosophical ideas, to be honest. :sweat_smile:

You write pretty well, actually.

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Yeah you’re right​:disappointed_relieved: This one is the difference between me and "you":smile: (Perception and jodging) I really can’t take life easy. I guess dear @mostafa.76 understands my skepticism and any other stuff goes back to this aspect of my character.

Maybe it’s because my concentration is very low these days​:pray:

Another proof for the personality difference I said​:sweat_smile: I still believe what I told you elsewhere. I am still sure that you have one of my favorite characters which that kind of personality is so rare.(Let me say that the other two people are also active in this thread. One as a writer and the other as a reader)

At least for some parts of that I need to thank technology :joy:

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I guess that there is no need to prove there is god or not . You judge by your actual behavior .some people say they are god-fearing men or women but just in the nick of time when other people need their help they back off .I don’t say they should sacrifice they don’t even do their own human responsibility. I believe humanity is beyond every religion. when you have inner peace it means you find your destination .there is a good thing about peace enjoy and concepts like these you can’t fake it . Since as soon as you start tasting it with every fiber of your being you don’t want to change it with anything else in this world .imagine you have a big problem and you pray and resort to god for solving your problem . you say god doesn’t hear my prayers .you probably commit blasphemy. But if you pray not only for your personal issues but for getting deeper recognition of existence philosophy. maybe your problem is not solved but you feel content . if you win millions or lose millions .you don’t go too far neither in your victories or in your failures. But regardless of these words . God is a good tool for fooling nations by authorities and taking the fall for god and bad tool for nations because they believe all of official’s incompetence are supposed to be tolerated and they’re written in their destiny

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@mostafa.76
May I ask you for help? The book I am reading was one of those that brought me to Islam, so what I will learn from it is predictable! Could you recommend some other books against this one?

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The fact that a topic is misused does not mean that it is incorrect

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Misuse is a spot-on verb for describing what es they exactly do . since they do all of this mess on purpose but some people say it’s due to mismanagement.they know management way better than us . But when thieves are equiped with a torch they can opt best goods and it’s our duty to take it away

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I don’t know exactly the book you’re reffering to. But here are some books I have read which mainly defend atheism. And by the way, they are free, the translators could not publish them, because these books are against the law of our government, so they decided to publish them online:

بهترین-برهان-علیه-خداوند.pdf (1.6 مگابایت)
شرور.pdf (2.4 مگابایت)
پیرامون مساله شر.pdf (2.3 مگابایت)

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Yes, I think I understand what you’re saying, becuase I feel the same. I agree with this quote:

Realities are wrapped in such a veil as it were that several philosophers of distinction have thought them altogether beyond comprehension, while even the Stoics think them hard to comprehend

> The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius, chapter 5

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the ubearable lightness of being

با ترجمه‌ی فارسیش بیشتر ارتباط میگیرم
بار هستی:)

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Hi dear,
Thank you for sharing this files, it would be
beneficial,at least for me

I will read this books as soon as possible…

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You’re very welcome :rose: :pray:

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Your comments are really useful
I hope it will not be banned or blocked…)

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